Crazy8s is an industry incubator and one of the things we invest heavily in is the writing side of Crazy8s. Writers sometimes don’t get the kudos they deserve but behind every successful film there has to be tight script. Crayz8s sat down with Kailey and Sam Spears, who recently won a Leo for Best Screenwriting for their Crazy8s short “CC”, and their story editor Kat Montagu to hear more about the writing process and the editing journey.
SS: How did you come up with the concept of CC?
We are fascinated by the role technology takes in human life and society. As AI is developing and evolving, it’s becoming more and more integrated into daily life. We have been especially struck by the trust people have in this technology and how the more that the technology mimics human behaviour, the easier it is for people accept it into their lives. What is unnatural is easily made to feel natural; when it seems natural, it’s easy to forget the construction behind it. The story of CC came out of exploring this.
SS: You are co-writers and co-directors – share with us how the co-writing works between you two.
We come up with an idea that we both like to delve deeper into. Then we try and crack out a story structure. After that, we start getting into writing. We don’t sit and write pages together, but rather, we’ll pass chunks of script back and forth and add and rewrite between us. This has worked well for us as we trust that each of us knows the direction we want to take the story, we just need to find the best route.
SS: At the time of your in-person live pitch at Crazy8s did you have a script for CC or what did you have creatively outside of your pitch?
Nope! That would have made life easier for us for sure (laughs). We had the story structure and the characters, but we didn’t have any script pages written. We also always create vision books early on while we work (ideas for tone/setting/character/design etc.), so we had most of that material by the time we pitched as well. We went in with a clear idea of what we wanted to achieve: how the story would play out, who the characters were, the themes we would bring forward, how the film would be shot, what the colour palette would be… everything – just hadn’t written the script.
SS: You were selected as a Top 12 Project which meant you received script editing support. What was that process like?
After being chosen to move onto the script phase, we got to work writing. We wrote our first draft and sent it to Kat and then started getting notes and advice. Working with Kat Montagu as our script editor was wonderful! She was great about taking drafts as they came and giving her thoughts on them. She was great at understanding what we wanted to achieve with the story and giving suggestions that she knew would help push it in the direction we were aiming for.
SS: How did your script change from draft one to the final draft. Were there any major changes?
There were no major changes, but a lot of small changes that make a major difference to how the film played out. With Kat’s guidance we were able to up the stakes more and build out the world our characters are living in. For example, one thing that we remember wasn’t in the original draft is Lena’s knife throw during the final confrontation between her and CC. We needed more build in energy on Lena’s end, so that was something we added after our original pitch. Kat also suggested things like Lena getting a text from her friend. That was such a wonderful way of expanding the character’s world beyond the four walls we see her confined to within the film. It was also helpful to have Kat there to see what dialogue/exposition was needed to understand the story and what could be cut. It’s sometimes hard to tell if what you think you’re putting in a script is coming across in the way you mean. Having Kat read the script and give her thoughts aided us in clarifying those things and helped us trim back unneeded dialogue.
Kat – What does a story editor do besides the obvious?
Feature film and short film story editors, like myself, work with writers in a coach-athlete relationship. Our job is to provide feedback on at least three drafts, help the writer come up with rewrite plans for those drafts, and set deadlines. We sometimes copyedit and fix the formatting, but never rewrite. We often liaise between the producer and the screenwriter, helping the writer figure out which notes they can take and which ones they can’t, helping the writer stay on deadline, and reassuring the producer.
Kat – What can writers do to have the best relationship with their script editors and vice versa?
The best writers to work with are the ones who realize that their vision is just the beginning and the script can improve with each draft. The most difficult writers to work with are the ones who can’t imagine deviating from their original vision. A good story editor has to be a good communicator, but also a strong puzzle-solver and collaborator. I like a combination of written notes and in-person meetings. Even though a producer often pays my fee, my loyalty lies with the screenwriter. My job is to help the writer create the best possible version of their script, not to persuade them to turn it into something else.
Kat – What does the perfect story editor and writer relationship look like?
Collaborative. Working with Kailey and Sam Spears was fantastic because they already collaborate with each other, so they’re used to that kind of process. The other thing I like about them is that they absolutely knew going in what they were interested in saying, thematically, so that was the guiding light for every draft. I often work with writer-directors, I’m not sure why. Perhaps because they’re already thinking visually about how to shoot something, but occasionally need reinforcements when it comes to dramatic logic or character development.
Kat – Can you offer advice to writers when looking for and working with a script editor?
Hiring a story editor whose skill-set is complimentary with your own is always a good idea. If your script needs structural work or character development, then one kind of story editor would be right. If you need to make it funnier, or faster, or more visual, you might need someone else. I work across all genres, but I tend to work with the same writers repeatedly (as I did with the Spears on CC then Alien: Ore). It’s often easier the second time around so you don’t need quite as many meetings.
SS: What was challenging about the writing process?
We work hard on our scripts in order to get it to a place we are happy to shoot it. The part we probably find most challenging is creating the series of events. Coming up characters/setting/themes etc. comes naturally to us, but figuring out what actually happens is more challenging.
SS: What was challenging about the story editing process?
Having a vision that you’re striving towards, but having to figure out how to craft the steps on the page to make it come through without it being too cheesy or over expositional can be tricksy. We work hard at finding a balance between bringing out information naturally while also moving things along in a pace that suits the film.
SS: Would you recommend working with a story editor and if so at what stage?
Yes indeed! For us, it is most useful once we have a first pass of the script. When there is material to work with, but still lots of room to make changes. We find that getting other eyes on our script (especially trained ones!) is always valuable. Listening to advice and suggestions, even if we may not agree with every piece, gives us a better understanding of how our story and characters are being perceived; what is coming across in the way we want, and what still needs to be reworked in order to achieve what we are aiming for.
Kat – What advice can you give to those seeking out a story editor?
Word of mouth is always best when it comes to finding a story editor. Ask local producers, agents, and other screenwriters. If in doubt, ask a story editor to recommend someone. They might say, “How about me?” but they might also recommend someone different. I often do. If in doubt, consider paying for script analysis first. That’s a one-time read and usually costs about $300 for a feature. If you like what the story editor has to say and you think they understand your script, then you can hire them to be the story editor for multiple drafts, meetings, etc. and they’ll discount that initial fee. Most feature film story editors cost between $2500 and $3000 in Canada, so many writers try to attach a producer or start raising money before they hire one. A good way to get an awesome story editor on the cheap is to ask for a recommendation at a film school. I train story editors so I’m happy to recommend up-and-comers. If a senior story editor has worked on a well-known film, their fee goes up exponentially, but your producer may be able to use that notoriety to help raise money to get your script made.
SS: How did Crazy8s help you advance your careers as writers?
Being able to do CC at the time that we did was incredibly valuable. We had been writing for a while and had not got something new on screen for a couple years. Our last project, The Mary Alice Brandon File, had been a short prequel for Lionsgate’s The Twilight Saga adapted from Stephenie Meyer’s writing. That project had been wonderful to work on as it gave us a chance to work with adapting someone else’s writing, but we were keen to get an original piece on screen. Doing Crazy8s gave us that opportunity. Having CC then helped open the door for the project that we did following it: ALIEN: ORE. 20th Century Fox was looking to make six original ALIEN shorts (set in the ALIEN universe) to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the original film. We pitched to write and direct one and got it! Having CC to back us up when we said that we could deliver a solid original piece within a tight timeline (and there is no tighter timeline than Crazy8s!) was very helpful in demonstrating to them that we were the right ones for to take on the project. Now, with CC, we have a nice package of sample material for our agent to show: an adaptation (The Mary Alice Brandon File), a completely original piece (CC), and an original piece set an existing universe (ALIEN: ORE).
SS: What advice would you offer those writers that have a script that are wanting to apply for Crazy8s?
If you have a script already, great!
First of all, make sure you go over your script and ask yourself, why? Why are you telling this particular story? Why is this film worth sharing with an audience? Remember, 1700+ people come out to the Crazy8s screening – what will you be sharing with them?
Identify the heart of your story. What is the core, the backbone? If you had to distill your story to one single idea or feeling, what would that be?
Being very clear with what the heart of your story is, and what your reason for sharing this film is, will help you throughout this whole process. Being clear of those things will help you communicate your vision to Crazy8s, it will help you communicate to your team, and will help strengthen your film in the script editing process.
Now, you need to determine if you want to direct this script, or are you wanting to partner up with someone else to direct.
If you want to direct yourself, and this is your first time directing, make sure that you find a solid team to surround you and help bring your project to screen. You may have a great script, but the Crazy8s team is ultimately going to want to know that your team is going to be able to bring it to screen. If you don’t know anyone yet, look for work that you like that has been coming out of Vancouver, work that aligns with what you want to achieve with your film, and approach the people involved. You can ask if they would be interested in coming on board your project or if they have any suggestions of people who might be good. We found one of our producers (Victoria Burkhart) for CC this way. We had never met her, but we really liked her work and reached out to see if she would be interested in coming on board. She agreed! Working with her was wonderful and we ended up working on ALIEN: ORE with her after CC. Crazy8s is a great opportunity to find people you like working with for future films as well.
If you are looking to pair up with a director, look for someone who you trust has the capability of bringing your script to screen with a vision that elevates it. Talk with them and make sure that they have a why that you are aligned with.
Have fun!